Sep 30th 2008 5:45AM "Maybe they are only showing "a part of the truth" to their advantage"
That's something of an understatement! But I am glad to see that you recognise this.
Jade is closest to Breaux's *idea* of what pre-ban tastes like based upon the sampling of a small number of vintage brands that have lost their original flavour profile. It has also most likely been changed to suit the modern palate - look at his other brand Lucid for example.
Of course the original Jade, which was made in Bangkok, did have high thujone levels according to what he and his partner said at the time. Then, when La Fee started producing again in France, the Bangkok project was dropped and Breaux's story suddenly changed.
Absinthe was never truly a drink for the elite, it was a drink for the masses. This idea of quaint artisanal distilleries is a 21st Century invention which plays on only a tiny part of the Belle Epoque phenomenon. It was invented to position absinthe as a elite drink like cognac etc.
The real bottom line is that if you don't like the subtle bitterness of wormwood and you are not after the effects...don't drink absinthe, drink anise flavoured liquor.
"I could give a shit less about thujone, but if I can expect no "absinthe effect"( I refuse to consider it "secondary"), then I'll be god-damned if I am going to spend $100 for a bottle of booze unless it's damned fine single malt scotch. When I want an anise flavoured liquer, I'll buy a pastis for $30. I don't care if the effect comes from thujones or Tom Jones, or a combination of other herbs, but that's why I pay exorbitant shipping rates"
Who said that? Answer Gwydion Stone of The Wormwood Society. So he buys it for the effects...or rather that is what he used to say before the US market opened up. Like many others he has changed his tune recently.
Sep 29th 2008 1:28PM Read what I said again please:
"We already know the degradation products produced by thujone as it degrades thanks to Frölich and Shibamoto"
Under variable light and temperature conditions, pH values, and ethanol concentrations, the degradation products formed from the above chemicals were:
(E)- and (2)-isopulegone,
and (E)- and (2)-5-methylene-6-methylhept-2-ene.”
The degradation products are listed by this paper from 1990. It is obvious that any serious Government scientist would test for the presence of these named elements in pre-ban absinthe. Nathan Maister and Breaux didn't do that, did they? They just tested old bottles of absinthe (that they provided) for thujone and then made a press release. They also paid for the press release I believe.
“Thujone is fairly volatile (BP 84 °C), and this small aliphatic ketone can be assumed to be rather reactive. We prepared a fresh 100-ppm standard of α-thujone (Aldrich 89231; 1058112 24706082) in a 50% ethanol/water solution to quantify levels of thujone in wormwood samples. The standard was stored in several tightly sealed glass vials to be used at a later date. After four months, these standards were found to contain less than 10 ppm thujone when compared with a freshly prepared solution”
Sep 29th 2008 11:27AM "I am not denying that the science behind thujone degradation is still a bit unclear"
No it is not. We already know the degradation products produced by thujone as it degrades thanks to Frölich and Shibamoto.
"a few "quality modern absinthes" that had too much thujone"
Which do you mean - The "DuVallon Mistake"? What was the thujone level of these "quality" products?
Sep 28th 2008 1:05PM "I know the people behind the most famous websites "feeverte.net", "heureverte.com", "alandia.de". I've met the distillers at the Matter distillery..."
Do you Marie-Claude Delahaye?
"Tant que l'on aura pas stocké une absinthe un siècle pour vérifier, on ne saura pas si la thuyone reste stable dans l'absinthe ou non" Marie-Claude Delahaye du Musée de l'absinthe d'Auvers sur Oise
Can you translate that for us please?
Sep 27th 2008 4:54AM "Nice comment Dan"
More of a copy and paste.
As regards the testing of pre-ban absinthe, which the "Wikipedia" article claims proves Dr Arnold wrong, thujone doesn't degrade over 100 or so years, then?
Ask yourself this: do the authors of these notorious "testing reports" have anything to gain by claiming that thujone levels in the old stuff were the same as Lucid Absinthe for example?
Lucid Absinthe publicity claims: "The resulting amount of thujone in Lucid is also comparable to many pre-ban absinthes. Lucid is completely authentic in every detail"
That's OK then...is it?
Q: Who sponsored the tests and put their name to the report? A: The guy that makes Lucid Absinthe and his business partner.
Dr Arnold wrote in the Boston Herald:
"The manufacturers of “new absinthe” claim that they are in compliance with the European Commission ruling that no foodstuff should contain more than 9 ppm thujone. Perhaps to raise the titillation for the current product, and to increase sales, they now claim that the “old absinthe” also had very little thujone in it! Supposedly the current drink has very little of several other terpenoids that were part of “old absinthe” because the current producers have missed the importance of (or intentionally avoided) “steam distillation” which was key to the manufacture of “old absinthe.” Steam distillation greatly affects the composition of the batchwise distillate. Any analogy to fractional distillation (as in whisky) is totally inappropriate with regard to 19th century absinthe manufacture"
The reason for the report's existence is this:
According to the FDA, alcoholic beverages must be thujone-free pursuant to 21 CFR 172.510.
It is used to hoodwink the media and regulators.
These "manufacturers of “new absinthe” - as Arnold calls them - are concerned that their FDA compliant products might be labeled as weak copies of the Belle Epoque original. This is the reason for Dan's "comment"
Sep 27th 2008 3:52AM "Funny, same exact 'comment' was put up on Jeffrey Morgenthaler's website when he wrote about absinthe"
Spooky!! I wonder why? Would anyone care to hazard a guess?
Sep 19th 2008 7:24AM Yup, the USA legal version of absinthe is La Fee Verte castrated... i.e with the THUJONE removed. In Europe you can find it with 100mg thujone....in America ZERO.
Mar 22nd 2008 5:01PM
It isn't the real thing anyway...real absinthe has thujone and the stuff they are flooding the US with is all "thujone free" If you know where to look online you can still find absinthe with *100mg thujone*
This is all marketing run by a small group of folks. A biochemist professor in Time Magazine said they are all "pretending"... it's absinthe but with the good stuff taken out.